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Post by Restkastel on Jun 15, 2016 8:48:52 GMT
When he made a comment about my sire being an honorable and decent person, it struck me and I began to listen to his words again, snappign a bit out of the haze that telling my story had put me in. It always was like this when I thought about those times, wasn't it? But the only way I could ever get past it was to confront it, and hopefully by knowin my story it would help the young Kindred somehow, and give him a bit of experience to learn from. Deciding to clear up a thing or two about my sire I began to speak, "While I appreciate the praise for my sire and am glad you think highly of him, he was not as honorable or good as what I said implies. You see, that is how he treated those of Kindred or potential to become Kindred. To everyone else....well, he taught me that any human without the potential to become one of us were good for one of two things: Food or materials. I do not hold quite as severe an opinion, I do believe he was mostly correct, but I do believe exceptions occur." This was the truth, my sire was rather bigoted against any human without magical aptitude and a will to join the Strigoi to become "something greater" as he put it. I could not agree with this statement wholeheartedly, as I knew that if my circumstances had not been what they were, I would never have joined the Strigoi. It would not have been worth it to me to throw away everything if it had not all been taken away anyway.
"And I shall take you up on your offer of support, Kursten. When the time comes that I need a bit of trash taken out, I shall definitely let you know. After all, don't boys like helping girls do physical labor?" I jested to him, trying to show him that despite my earlier lapse into my memories, I was fine. The memories were not strong enough to take me when untriggered and addressed properly. I was not weak enough to let them keep me for long, that was for sure. I then listened to the boys further words and smiled at his questions before responding to him. "It is fine, when one can read any language and knows much about the ancient world, philosophy becomes something of an interest for me as well. As to answer your questions, perhaps I should start in order. As for ones who could be religious despite our nature, it requires truly blessed items to hurt us after all, so I could not see why some deluded person could believe in the abrahamic God, and I also see no reason why perhaps more sane indivudals could take comfort in a sort of spirituality other than those beasts. They would be weak for doing so, but that it is not something unthinkable, I would argu," I said, taking a pause before continuing on.
"I do not regret any of the choices I made, to do so now would be foolish. Those choices make me who I am, for better or for worse. To deny them would be to deny myself. I would do them all again as well, if given the chance under the same circumstances. I am not a determinist, so I do not believe in forced choices, only ones in which we are limited in our choices, so of course I believe I had a choice in everything I have done, though I can understand why perhaps some might think otherwise. Because in a sense, if I wanted to fulfill the goals I had developed in that closet, I had no other choices. However, that initial choice, and the choices afterwards to remain true to my goals, are indeed choices made out of free will," I said, giving the young kindred time to contemplate my answers.
"I actually am quite thankful to find someone who has an interest in philosophy like this, so many are too busy thinking of their day to day to ponder things like this, or they perhaps just don't care. So raise your head, there is no need to apologize," With that, I once again did a bit of paperwork with my attention divided between it and the young kindred, waiting for his reply as I did so.
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Aug 19, 2016 17:05:27 GMT
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Post by Smitejr on Jun 25, 2016 5:34:56 GMT
It was always difficult understanding the way someone could compartmentalize empathy and kindness. That some people were worth so much more than others. I was no saint, far from it, but I still found it difficult to accept the situation I was in, and how it made so much pragmatic sense to hold a view similar to what Ruby's sire did.
Humans were food. Only Kindred had value.
I couldn't accept that. As much as it would help me, as much as I could see why I should think like that, as much as Ruby said that was essentially what she believed, with some exception. I couldn't. My family was human. And, as much as I felt I owed Ruby, I still had every reason to distrust my other Kindred. Not that I did. But I had as much reason to distrust them as I did to distrust what this man, and this woman I likely owed my life to, dismissed as food or materials.
It was a good thing, then, that it was not something that truly needed to be discussed at present.
“Interesting. I don't share the position, but I can certainly see how you arrive at it. You and your sire have every reason to believe that way.”
I avoid speaking about my reasons for not agreeing. Foolish reasons. Sentimental reasons. Vainglorious reasons. Nothing that I cared to disclose to someone I thought I was getting along well with, and could certainly make my life in the Guild harder. If she pressed, perhaps I would. But I didn't want to.
I smile as she agrees to call me if personal business returns to her doorstep. “But of course. You certainly have enough on your plate, you don't need to clean garbage on top of it.” She was looking somewhat brighter. That was good. If making a promise like this could make someone I respect happy, then it goes without saying that I would do it. Keeping thoughts like this in my head helped. I wasn't working for someone like my Sire. I was working for me, and I was working for people I enjoyed being around. With any luck, I would continue to do so for a long time yet.
The fact that she professes an interest in my ramblings is enough that it would appear unnatural to withhold the laugh I wanted to do . “Oh? So it's weak of me to believe as I do, that there is an order to all this chaos? Well, perhaps I am. Perhaps I'm simply clutching to some driftwood, thinking that it's a mighty ship when I should just swim. I'll see how I feel in a few decades.” Having fun. Playing. This was something he truly missed...and he hadn't realized he'd missed it until just then. “And you are strong for believing as you do. There are a great many choices I would have done differently with present knowledge...And yet, they culminated with me among colleagues, with an eternity in front of me to research with. Perhaps I should thank my Sire the next time I see her.” I shake my head. “Or perhaps that's merely the driftwood speaking.”
As she professes her thanks, I reply in kind. “I'm glad. To be quite frank, I haven't enjoyed my time as much as I have now in a long while. The only time that came close was that potential breakthrough with my research into self-regenerative plasmids...but it's far too early to have anything conclusive to celebrate.” I shake my head. “I don't know why more of us don't take up an interest in it. It's not like we're short on time, and I find that it helps realign my thinking after focusing on a project for an extended period.”
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Post by Restkastel on Jun 26, 2016 16:12:21 GMT
It seemed the young kindred reacted as I had expected to my comment about what my sire and I both believed essentially when it came to humans. It was rather expected, really. He was still a relatively young member of the kindred, he still had ties to the human world and people he cared about that were human, and he had also had a fairly bad experiences with the other kindred he had met, so it was only natural that he held the opinion that he did, and I decided to let him know that I did not hold it against him that he held such opinions, and that I indeed understood why he had that opinion.
"Do not worry Kursten, I was not expecting you to hold the same viewpoint as someone like myself or my sire. You are still young, you have not outlived almost everyone you know, and you certainly still have people who you care about who are human. It would be odd for you to have accepted this peculiar morality that older kindred tend to share just yet. It is enough for you to understand how we have arrived at this conclusion and do not hold us any ill will for doing so," I said, explaining my thoughts on the matter. After all, I had been hesitant to accept my sire's teachings when I was young and I thought my sister was still human, another reason why I formed that exception in my mind to allow some value besides those who could become kindred.
I simply nodded and gave him a few words of thanks regarding what he said about his response to my acceptance of his aid, "It is always much better to have help with garbage anyway, it makes the task far easier and quicker." With that, I moved on past that topic and continued on to what he said in the end, giving a bit of a correction in what he said. "It is not weak to believe there is order in the chaos, however we are the ones who have to forge that order for ourselves. Fate is simply the end result of our actions and our own determination, a person who acts with unyielding will and certainty that their actions will bring them their desired results will pave their own fate with certainty, so long as they have considered their actions beforehand and can adapt to the situation at hand. Weakness is relying on some outside force to do that for you, to believe that the chaos of the world will order itself without an unflinching determination to order it yourself," I said, pausing before continuing. "As for regret, my situation simply is different from yours. It is natural for one to feel such doubts about the path they have decided upon unless they have a deep seated reason for why they had started upon it in the first place. I do not regret my decision as I would not have been able to live with myself if I had remained as weak and helpless as I had been and allowed the church not to pay the blood price for their transgressions. As such, all my actions which were necessitated by that original decision were natural consequences of that original decision, to doubt them would be to doubt the reason I began to tread my path in the first place, after all," I said, explaining the reason why I felt the way I did.
"A self regenerative plasmid? Did you perhaps try to incorporate our kind's unnatural healing ability into it? I am not too familiar with the more 'scientific' aspects of how magic is applied, after all, my research is far more understanding based than logic based. After all, I do deal more with demons and necromancy, so my approach is probably a bit different than your own," I said, quite intrigued by his research. "I would assume that they get caught up with other, less academic ways to pass their eternal lives. After all, many of the other houses especially are not as cerebral as us and the fleur d'orleans, so they often find themselves doing other things, though that is just in general, I assume there are some more academically minded members, I just have not met any."
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Post by Smitejr on Jul 17, 2016 5:40:01 GMT
Ruby's stance on the issue showed understanding and patience, and that was something of a comfort to me. Still...the fact that people could be this way, that anyone who lived and breathed as a human could treat them as little more than chattel once their situation changed...that the march of time could erode a common decency among beings...that scared me more than a little. It didn't change my respect for Ruby, but it did make it apparent that things needed to change. "Of course, Ruby. I couldn't possibly harbor ill-will towards you in regards to a personal stance like that...one I might end up becoming a hypocrite for in the future if I were to do so." Not able to completely hide my discomfort, I let out a sigh. "While I would prefer people's lives be afforded the respect that I feel it deserves...I'll be more than satisfied so long as no one acts wastefully or wantonly. Laughable, I'm aware."
At her philosophical point, he had an easier time accepting her viewpoint, but there were still flaws that could be seen. "Oh? So an unflinching will can overcome with certainty the slings and arrows of adverse fortune? I'm not denying that hard work and perseverance will overcome a great many obstacles...but some things do reach the level of impossibility." My mind immediately flashes back to my own past...Ruby had accomplished her goal, and yet I could not. Was my will not enough? Or was my goal simply impossible? Perhaps that distinction was impossible to truly tell, but my mind wrankled at the thought of insufficiently wishing for the future with my family, newly forged in a magical rebirth.
Then again, another path came up. Perhaps my future simply required more time than Ruby's did. That it was more windy than simply ending the lives of some assorted human filth. Again...who could know?
I shake my head. "It is easy to say that, Ruby, when one is looking back successful in that path. When one is stymied despite gambling one's body soul on the future you desired...well, I'm likely getting too personal. In any case, I find it quite likely that you are failing to consider the world around you in a way, that the results of your will engraved on the world being successful means everyone should be so fortunate if merely they believe and persevere hard enough. And perhaps I am doing the same, in the opposite fashion." I laugh. "Such is why philosophy is so enjoyable. I wish my brothers had enjoyed it as much...they quickly got frustrated with it. I am sorry to hear that it truly is uncommon among our kind, though it also makes me seem rather fortunate considering my present company."
Her inquiry into his research me shaking my head, clearly excited. "Not quite. It's essentially based on the spirit I'm contracted with. You see, unlike yourself, I'm bound to a spirit of nature. That functions more on the logic end of magic, applications to the rules of the world. While it's limiting in some respects, it also allows for functions that can have a more widespread effect." I calm myself slightly, no need to let excitement make me undignified. "Essentially, I seek to expand the natural regeneration all living beings has, and apply it directly to blood. While we are after the lingering life essence present in blood, humans on a basic level merely need an oxidizing agent carried in plasma. If I can apply the effects conceivable with Ravijojla's magic onto a base of artificial blood, that would drastically increase the survivability of people even after they've been drained dry by a vampire clearly out of his mind, and this would be without needing to see a generally taxed magical healer." I smile. "Not only that, but blood donation can obviously become both easier and less necessary." I shrug. "Perhaps it is a phase I will outgrow, but reducing the footprint I and others have on our birth species is still something of relevance to me...I hope you can forgive my childish squeamishness on the matter."
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Post by Restkastel on Jul 17, 2016 7:20:15 GMT
"While I understand your position Kursten, it is not just we elder vampires who do such. Indeed, this is something that humans themselves even practice towards themselves, with even less reason than we Kindred have for treating them as such," I said, sighing as I remembered my time with Thule, "The horrors I have seen humans perpetrate on one another for the most banal of reasons are far worse than anything I have personally seen a Kindred do to them." My mind wandered to the condition of some of the poor wretches we had received from Dachau and the other camps, miserable shells of human beings to whom death was simply a mercy and release, my gaze darkened as I remembered. "While we elders may treat most humans like cattle or chattle slaves, most of us see no reason to waste energy to be unnecessarily cruel to them. Such a thing is so very human, and something most of us have left behind in general. But humans? They are often the most cruel to each other because of the creeds they follow and hte walls they build between one another, ignoring the common blood that runs in their veins and the things they have in common for the relatively minor differences between them, seeking to inflict pain and cruelty on each other in the name of harming the other," I said, remembering a particular Jew that we had gotten from Dachau.
I had taken the time to read his file, and he was, at least to me, a good man from what I read, and his only crime was being an unfavorable to the humans in power. I pitied the man, especially due to what they had done to him. By the time he was on our table, he was practically skin and bones, kept only from death by the ministrations and cruelties of those who brought him to us. Soon afterwards, I did the only merciful thing I could do for him, and killed him by feeding on him to death, so his death was painless and blissful. I remember that man to this day as an example of just how cruel humans could be to each other for no good reason, and such things were one of many reasons I felt no pity in treating them like cattle. It was better than a good deal of them deserved, after all.
I sighed and shook my head, clearing my mind of the memory that I was going through and returned to the conversation at hand. It was amusing that he thought that I had come to the end of my path and was looking back on it from the point of one who had completed it, it seemed that I had to correct this fundamental misunderstanding of his. "You seem to be mistaken, Kursten. I am by no means done with what I have set out to do. You see, the only time I will be able to call this completed is when the Vatican is in ruins and every hunter dead. I want to see the Holy See ablaze with infernal flames as the pope watches in horror before I take his head for a trophy and keep it alive through necromancy, a trophy to my conquest. This may seem an impossibility, as you have said somethings are, but it is just something that will take a great deal of time to accomplish, perhaps more time than any human has any right living. However, this is one of the blessings given to us as those who walk the night. We are blessed with almost infinite time, only limited by how well we manage to survive in this world. This is our greatest gift, as it opens all doors for us, as what is impossible for a human is mostly impossible because no individual human could ever live long enough to accomplish it," I said, giving him a smile before continuing, "So that is why I say what I do, it is a unique view on reality by one who is effectively immortal and has begun to think like one. The amount of time something takes really is meaningless to us, Kursten. It is natural that a young kindred such as yourself would be in such a mad rush, since you still think very much like a human does. However, given time, you too will come to terms with the ramifications of your immortality, and begin to plan like one who has an immortal lifespan."
I remembered that I was much the same when I was young, rushing headlong and not having the proper patience. It was rather embarrassing to be honest, a folly of my youth that I had outgrown but still knew how it felt, and it allowed me to plan for the long term and not neglect the short term, like many other older vampires did. It was something of a balance, one had to look at both the short term and the long term. After all, what besides a dream is a long term goal without the short term ones to make it possible?
His research goals were laudable, but his motives were very much like the rest of him, young and green. But perhaps this was not such a bad thing. In this day and age of cooperation, perhaps we needed more people like him to help guide those of us embraced into a different world with a different mindset from acting as if nothing had changed. Giving him a bit of a smile as I thought about that, I responded. "Quite a noble goal you have there, and one I believe is quite possible if you dedicate yourself to it. However, I will not scold your motives, rather I will commend them. We of the old guard may think differently, but that may be because we are from a different time and a different culture. It is you who are likely to be the best mediators with the more mundane elements of human society, those of us who are still very much tied down to their human roots. All things require a healthy balance after all, we of the old guard look out for the Kindred and how we can secure a place in our world and keep your generation from becoming weak and vulnerable, while your kind give us a more presentable and palatable face to the mundanes whom we think of as cattle. A symbiosis that does us both good, and allows us to take advantage of both the advantages of youth and experience, as long as we can find a way to work together. I do not know how well this will actually work in practice, but I do not think it is something that is unforgivable or should not be attempted, so if you agree with me on this, I shall watch over you carefully as you grow and see where you take this," I said, looking straight into the young kindred's eyes as if taking stock of his soul, not breaking eye contact whatsoever as I did so.
Would this young man be consumed by the system, or would he create a change from within that would help make it thrive in this new climate. Only time would tell.
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Post by Smitejr on Jul 31, 2016 1:21:34 GMT
Her description of the negative facets of humanity and the poor way they'd treat each other had an uncomfortable ring of truth. It was, after all, undeniable. People were filth a great deal of the time, and I knew that if it wasn't his family that had acted that way, and it wasn't him that was the victim of it, I might have condemned their actions as barbarous instead of misguided and ignorant. The history of humanity had been long, bloody, and filled with the kinds of actions that Ravijojla would approve of, unending quest for dominancy and superiority. Erasing populations, propagating a tribe, hoarding women, ostracizing the weak, lame, and outsider. It all came from the very nature that he intended to use to better the prospect of these human animals.
"I could not have said it better than myself. Now if only you could embrace it, there might be some real progress in your future. Alas..."
Needless to say, he knew it was odd that he was going against the grain to act like a decent person to people who acted so barbarous, especially when, in comparison to them, more directly eased his day to day existence through available food. It was also true that death by Kiss was likely one of the absolute best ways to go, as the human would enjoy their final moments immensely and likely die very happy. Still, there was an inherent wrongness to it that I couldn't shake. "If I treated myt actions devouring people as valid and acceptable, how could I find any reason to right the injustice I suffered? Justice was not something that could be swayed so easily dropped and handed. Perhaps I might embrace such an attitude when I do find reason to divorce myself from humanity, but for the meantime, it is a give and take. I enjoy the ability to feel outraged, just as I enjoy the ability to feel satisfied. Perhaps that too is some way that I am all too human still."
Her statement that she was not finished surprised me. She had avenged herself on the people that wronged her. She had found her family, and had a stable, steady life. What more was there? The story she told me I found surprising. Perhaps I would have such extravagant, drawn-out goals when I was nearing a century in lifespan. But turning my life into a personal crusade was not something that appealed to me. Still, I would be polite: she was free aside from the Thirst, and could do as she wished. "That is true. You certainly aim high. I do not doubt that I will begin to stop living day to day, and live more decade to decade. However, I am not quite there yet."
Her call for a balance to things was laudable. He was happy to hear it. However, it was a little saddening as well. After all, it was a sweeping statement that required the older Vampires to be wise caretakers, and the younger vampires to not be brash and tempestuous. It was a dream that would likely not happen. However, it was a goal he could fight for. "Your words are kind, Ruby. I'lll keep them in mind. If people are willing to make the changes necessary to allow the arrangement, I would welcome it. However, I cannot imagine the average of the recently turned would be like me, and I cannot imagine the average of the longer-lived would be like you. Perhaps I'm unnecessarily wary." In the end, it didn't matter. He was Strigoi. He had his magic to hone, his skills to refine, and that was likely a goal that would last the entirety of his unlife. He would thrive and survive no matter what the climate was.
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Post by Restkastel on Jul 31, 2016 20:38:27 GMT
He did make a few valid points, at least with a human understanding of morality, so I decided to fire back at him, playing the devil's advocate to give him the chance to reconsider and perhaps make his morality more robust and more well developed than it currently was. "There is a difference between that which has been done to you and what a vampire does to humans when they eat them, and that difference would be the intent with which the act is committed, at least in my opinion. The actions you faced were driven ou of fear, hatred, and a very human cruelty. Not only that, but it was a totally unnecessary act, at least under most definitions of the word. For the devouring of people, feeding for us is best compared to how humans feed on other animals. It is done out of hunger, not out of malice. Just like humans, we could avoid feeding that kills what we feed on, but many humans don't. I myself would be a vegetarian in this sense, but I can see why some would rather feed directly off of a person instead of off of blood bags like I do. Just like more reasonable vegetarians may say, discounting the weird ones who say meat is murder, I do not necessarily condemn the carnivores. As I have said, I believe that intent must be judged when justice is brought up, and the way you put it feels like you are equating two things that should not be equated," I said, putting up a rather reasonable argument for what I had in mind. What I believed was a bit different, at least in the nuance of it, but this would serve to give Kursten a bit of food for thought on his sense of Justice, which was always a good thing.
Moving on, I decided to address his other point, about how it was not likely the average elder or neonate would be of our distinct temperments which would make such an arrangement work, and I decided to expand upon the idea to give him some more food for thought. "Indeed, they definitely are not at the moment, but that is why it is a goal to work for, and not the current state of things. To make such a thing a reality would require a lot more communication and education on the part of the young, and accountability and a sense of duty from elder kindred such as myself. However, if we do not do something like this, we will lose the power and influence that our kind has enjoyed over the world, and perhaps put our very existence into jeopardy. This is a situation where we either adapt, or we die. Quite amusing that we the Kindred have to do something as quintessential to life as evolve, don't you think? I said, giving a bit of a chuckle at the end, it really was quite an irony that we the undead would have to do something so inherent to a living being as evolve.
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Post by Smitejr on Aug 5, 2016 15:13:31 GMT
Her point was valid, but does slightly miss the point, I feel. "While it's hard to condemn the carnivores, it does miss a very key element. Animals do not think, beyond an extraordinary rudimentary sense. A cow does not have hopes or dreams. A pig does not wonder what his family will do with him gone." I was likely being obstinate at this point. Perhaps she was right. After all, animals hunted and killed animals all the time, and as Ravijojla liked reminding me, humans are merely just another animal in Gaia's domain. Again, it was likely that, once the centuries began to separate me from mankind, it would be different. But even after over two decades of unlife, humanity was still as familiar to him as if I had spent that time living and aging normally. I couldn't simply accept that those who kill and maim for no reason other than feeding preference should be given free reign...or at least, should act in such a way without concern for those they are harming. "In a very real sense, however, it is increasingly the world of humanity. It is their standard of justice that we will eventually be forced to contend with, I feel. Hopefully those who are used to the status quo of being higher up in the food chain can adapt, but I do think there will come a time when humanity loses patience. The status quo was on borrowed time since the end of the masquerade, regardless." Tossing aside the issue of morality, which I felt more than willing to concede, there was a very practical element for practicing vegetarianism, at least, I felt there was.
As she states something very much the same, though in reference to the very conflict between neonate and elder that was an immortal struggle for the Kindred, I find myself nodding. "And I'm willing to work towards that goal, without question. But it does require a willingness from the people who, to minds unwilling to fully consider the scope of the new circumstances, and being either caught up in the greed that comes with youth, or comfortably set in for centuries, there is every likelihood it will fail. I agree that it doesn't mean it isn't worth the effort, quite the opposite. I merely feel that it will be a long, slow, grinding process, finding a few who have the foresight to support it one at a time. And in all likelihood, those who do push it will be seen as upstart rabble-rousers." Sighing, he shakes his head. "I'm all for it happening, but I'd almost rather simply focus on practicing magic and letting things march ever closer to the time of reckoning that's inevitably pushing forward."
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Post by Restkastel on Aug 8, 2016 17:29:59 GMT
He had a few good points, but I felt I needed to address an underlying point here and that was the premise of just trying to convince through words alone. His earlier points I figured could go uncontested, after all, we both agreed that the practical choice was to cooperate with humans to a degree, though we did need to be choosy with who we did cooperate with after all. "I am more than well enough aware that to bring this about through convincing others by the merits of ideas would take far too long, and likely not be in time for what we need. Instead, what we need is something that demands their attention. Rational conversation is all well and good, but we Kindred are typically quite the stubborn bunch, and do not act unless they feel it will benefit them. Which is one of the reasons I research what I do. I have come to a decision, as of late, that I should focus down my study of Kindred vitae to a specific matter, that of how our traits are passed and how changing them can affect us," I said, making an idle gesture as I did so.
"A recent experience has confirmed my suspicion that information is carried on all blood through -some- sort of marker, as an acquaintance of mine feels relief from pain when consuming the blood of female virgins. What I seek to narrow down is how that information is passed, and somehow create a mechanism to change said information. For normal humans, that wouldn't be too much of a benefit, as they produce blood rather than consume it. But consider our rather unique relationship to blood, and how we are essentially our blood. If I was able to change these markers, perhaps it could change our weaknesses and strengths, and maybe even let us all enjoy the benefits of the Tepes. Does that not sound like a good way to motivate other Kindred to follow our ideal in return for no longer having to fear the blades of the dogs of the church?" I said, my eyes glinting at the possibility of engineering a perfect race of vampires who could be immune to the more negative aspects of our condition, but at the same time have all the benefits that came with out conditions and from their own house? That would make our numbers far more of a threat in the long run, but that also meant we were more powerful and had more room to negotiate, as our demands had to be heard instead of silenced by threats of force and being put to the blade. We would be the ones setting the terms, not them, and perhaps that would allow us to tip the balance of power away from the church. After all, with the downsides of being a member of the undead gone, wouldn't that make it much easier to gain supporters?
"It is quite the lofty goal, something that has not yet been achieved, but I think it possible. What do you think, Kursten, do you think that such a plan could work as a way of getting those of your age to join our cause?"
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